Jodha Akbar 76-78: Clarity and confusion - Page 4

Created

Last reply

Replies

129

Views

12.6k

Users

23

Likes

386

Frequent Posters

karkuzhali thumbnail
Anniversary 16 Thumbnail Group Promotion 5 Thumbnail
Posted: 9 years ago
#31

Dear Shagun,
My doubt is what is the purpose of reserving a place before everybody else's response, and insert your comments later, without giving a chance to the subsequent writers to know about your views and include them in their posts.
By the way, I enjoy all your posts in this forum for their sincerity and clarity. I think you are the youngest forum member and I am the oldest!

Saraswathi Aunty.



Originally posted by: -AkDha.Lover-

Saraswathi Aunty,

I think people 'res' their comments when they want to reserve a certain place for their comments. πŸ˜ƒ

sashashyam thumbnail
Anniversary 12 Thumbnail Group Promotion 6 Thumbnail + 3
Posted: 9 years ago
#32
Akka, the first time I posted these comments, they all - yours and mine - came out only in black and white. I have put in the colours now, and if you like you can take another look at them!

Shyamala

Originally posted by: sashashyam

Dear Saraswathi Akka,

Thank you!! I am very pleased that you enjoyed this one so much. My own supplementary comments are, as usual, in blue.

But first about the reserving and unreserving, that Shagun has explained. The funny thing is that after reserving a spot on page 1, many people post their comments on page 4! for those who update the reserved spot, the later "unreserving" is to tell the reader to look at page 1 again, as otherwise, the updated comment might be totally missed!

Shyamala

karkuzhali thumbnail
Anniversary 16 Thumbnail Group Promotion 5 Thumbnail
Posted: 9 years ago
#33

Dear Shyamala,
Thank you very much for your concern! But I was able to isolate your comments from mine and read them.
BTW, what is the time now in India? Should be around 2.00 a.m ! It is not good for your health to be awake past midnight like this though it shows your sincerity and involvement in making and keeping everything perfect.
And I thank you again for your patient and prompt reply to my post, which always rejuvenates me!

Saraswathi Akka.
amina1 thumbnail
Anniversary 10 Thumbnail Group Promotion 4 Thumbnail
Posted: 9 years ago
#34
πŸ˜†Oh dear Aunty salim and lemon !as usual great post
fanjarajat thumbnail
Group Promotion 1 Thumbnail
Posted: 9 years ago
#35
What can I say that I have not said before. Having watched these few episodes multiple times, i was still waiting on your analysis of some of my favorite episodes very eagerly. Not having been able to do justice i am now copying them to an ongoing word document so I can read it w/o connectivity or little downtime I can find. I lost a few episodes analysis in between. This will form a very nice Critique on JA the serial that you should publish.
Keep writing..you sure have a flair for it and we enjoy and relish like wanting to read a book after the movie.
So
I started reading again from The Emperor Strikes Back - It is a given that Jalal wants Jodha, come what may. Why he wants her is not relevant for the moment, merely that he does, and what Jalal wants, Jalal gets.
I was wondering if you can think of a reason why Jalal wanted marraige to Jodha. With so many in his Harem he could have easily won her and added her to the Harem. I am not sure who made the first move in History to form a relationship to end the battles.
More later..hope you wont't mind my disorganized ramblings.
karkuzhali thumbnail
Anniversary 16 Thumbnail Group Promotion 5 Thumbnail
Posted: 8 years ago
#36

Dear Donjas,
When I started reading your post, I was like thisπŸ˜•.
After I understood the purpose I was like this!πŸ˜›πŸ˜‰

Saraswathi Aunty.




Originally posted by: Donjas

I just watched the best episode of JA. This is the episode that made me stay on with JA in 2013. In fact I liked it so much then that I downloaded an HD video of this episode.

I know it has nothing to do with the series of episodes you have written about but I am at a euphoric high today after watching today's episode and I had to share my joy. I need not tell you, how eager I am to read your analysis of this episode.

It was a perfect episode with a right mix of all the ingredients which makes a program great. I don't care a damn for any new show, when even a repeat of this episode can gave me such joy today. Besides I am too picky, rarely does any audiovisual program give me pleasure.

O.K from the start. The snake scene was superb. Jalal's comments were humorous but cutting at the same time. They reflected his pain at the outrageously bad behavior that Jodha has shown towards him in recent times. At the same time his words made Jodha smile, which is a first in this series. It also made her think.

The spectular tent settings, tight direction and focused script were helped by electric chemistry of Rajat and Paridhi.

What a start! O.K on to scene 2, the fakir scene. Another great scene, Jodha jumps to wrong conclusions about Jalal's intentions and is then stunned by Jalal's humility and charity.

Then the dargah scene. It was a pious and pure scene. A mystic touch as Jodha and Jalal paid obeisance. Everything looked serene and holy.

The predictions made by the fakir about Jodha Jalal future were so optimistic, it must have gladdened the hearts of the serial watchers in 2013 who had gone through so much negativity in the preceding episodes.

Then came the iconic thread tying scene. This scene, in my opinion is the symbolic scene of JA, if you want anyone else to experience the magic of JA, show them this scene. It is what JA is all about, tolerance and acceptance of different cultures.

In this scene, Jalal was extremely nice to Jodha, making no wish for himself, instead he prayed for her wish to come true.

The dervish scene was another great Rajat performance. He added his own touch to the iconic Hrithik scene from the movie. Also note how many times Jalal addresses Jodha as MUZ, heartwarming.

Then the final hunt scene. I don't think that Rajat and Paridhi have looked better than in this scene. Again some cute nok jhok to end a perfect episode.

A total once in a lifetime package, this episode was. I wish that I get to experience more such perfect moments in life. Even if I don't, I have this episode to relish.

sashashyam thumbnail
Anniversary 12 Thumbnail Group Promotion 6 Thumbnail + 3
Posted: 8 years ago
#37
My dear Donjas,

I am not quite like Saraswathi Akka, especially not the part at the start, but when I saw this episode first in 2013, I was, to put it frankly, suspicious!

Firstly, I knew that things could not be so good for long, otherwise the show would have folded up in 200 episodes (which would have been for the best!).

It was the same after the Sujamal affair, when I was completely conned by Jalal's long fantasy - it was almost half an episode! - and believed that even this Jodha could have become rational and had forgiven him. I came down to earth with a thud the next day, and vowed that never again would I be so befooled! But if that fantasy had been true, think what all unpleasantness we would have been spared, especially the complete poodlisation of Jalal! Not to speak of a reduction of the show's length by at least 50 episodes.

Secondly, I knew that Jodha was on her best behaviour because she was so ashamed about her ranting during the Mohini affair (the snake in her khema; Mohan the Magnificent was the tiger!), and that she would soon revert to her standard template of an Ekta heroine.

And finally, there were so many gushing, ultra-romantic posts in the forum then , looking ahead to Paradise on earth now for their Akdha, that I felt there was no point in adding to them or writing anything for folks in such an opiate haze!πŸ˜‰

I did write a post, of course, but it was less beatific - though I agree with you that the episode deserved that kind of instinctive response - than analytical, and that from the psychological point of view.

These days, I am having to amplify on, and at times to completely rewrite my old posts (and write new ones for episodes that I had not covered then), for my style has changed somewhat between then and now. I do more detailed analysis now, which is why you are saddled with 10+ page posts for 3 episodes, my poor Donjas!πŸ˜‰πŸ˜‰ But I do not think I shall have to do much rewriting for this particular episode, it is already detailed enough, except perhaps to add more quotations, which I do more often nowadays.

So, when you read my take on this episode tomorrow, you will understand why it is not imbued with roseate visions, which it fully deserved! - but stands flat-footed on the ground! And you will, I am sure, bear with me for not echoing your mood fully!

Shyamala

Originally posted by: karkuzhali


Dear Donjas,
When I started reading your post, I was like thisπŸ˜•.
After I understood the purpose I was like this!πŸ˜›πŸ˜‰

Saraswathi Aunty.




sashashyam thumbnail
Anniversary 12 Thumbnail Group Promotion 6 Thumbnail + 3
Posted: 8 years ago
#38
Amina my dear,

You are back at last! I am very pleased to see you after so long, and I hope you will be more regular from now on.

I am delighted that you enjoyed the Salim and the lemon crack. I did too!

Shyamala Aunty

Originally posted by: amina1

πŸ˜†Oh dear Aunty salim and lemon !as usual great post

sashashyam thumbnail
Anniversary 12 Thumbnail Group Promotion 6 Thumbnail + 3
Posted: 8 years ago
#39
My dear Abhaya,

How good to see you here! I hope you will surface more frequently in the future, like a dolphin, instead of staying submerged for ages, like a whale!πŸ˜‰

As for why Jalal wanted to marry Jodha and have her as his Begum, and not as a concubine, though he suggests that darkly to Bharmal purely as a pressure tactic, it is for two reasons.

Firstly, he wants a solid, mutually supportive rishta with the Rajput community as a whole, for the entirely valid political reasons that he cites to his ministers in The Emperor strikes back, and he sees marriage with this princess from Amer as the wedge that he will drive into the solid wall of Rajput hostility towards him. If he had managed to carry Jodha off as war booty, then there could have been no such honorable relationship, and the hatred of him and the Mughals among the Rajputs would have only deepened. Then he could never have realised the Hindustan of his dreams.

Secondly, if he had even managed to carry Jodha off as a concubine, she would have never have submitted to him. She would have found a way to commit suicide. And Jalal knows this instinctively, as he knows the Rajput ethos, and more important, he has seen Jodha in live action in Amer. He wants her for keeps, deep down, though he does not know as yet why he wants that, so a Begum it has to be!

Oh no, I do not at all mind your disorganised ramblings, as you put it. Please feel free to write in whenever you like and about any episode you are doubtful about, and on any thread of mine at all.

And if you want the texts of my posts for any missing episodes, do let me know. I have all of them in running format in 8 MS Word files!

Shyamala Di

Originally posted by: fanjarajat

What can I say that I have not said before. Having watched these few episodes multiple times, i was still waiting on your analysis of some of my favorite episodes very eagerly. Not having been able to do justice i am now copying them to an ongoing word document so I can read it w/o connectivity or little downtime I can find. I lost a few episodes analysis in between. This will form a very nice Critique on JA the serial that you should publish.

Keep writing..you sure have a flair for it and we enjoy and relish like wanting to read a book after the movie.

So I started reading again from The Emperor Strikes Back - It is a given that Jalal wants Jodha, come what may. Why he wants her is not relevant for the moment, merely that he does, and what Jalal wants, Jalal gets.

I was wondering if you can think of a reason why Jalal wanted marraige to Jodha. With so many in his Harem he could have easily won her and added her to the Harem. I am not sure who made the first move in History to form a relationship to end the battles.

More later..hope you wont't mind my disorganized ramblings.

alffim thumbnail
Anniversary 9 Thumbnail Group Promotion 2 Thumbnail
Posted: 8 years ago
#40
Dear Shyamala!
You have made an excellent analysis (as always 😊), but me especially like your description of subconscious feelings Jalal to Jodha and incomprehensible for his own reason for fear of losing her.
I really liked your description of feelings in Jalal Darbar (?). Now I think that probably he tried to reconcile themselves with the departure of Jodha, not only because he - the Emperor and her husband, accustomed to submissive wives, but not wanting to continue her destroy?
Very good green and yellow Jodha. Before your reviews I saw only one flat picture of a proud, but unhappy Jodha.. But and then I was surprised by the words of Alter-ego Jodha: "you aren't ready to understand the culture of the local people, not to mention the fact to accept it (culture)". It gave me a different view of the situation, especially remembering that love which gave Hamida Bano and Salema.
And a little extinguished nimbus over head Jodha. πŸ˜›
But in these episodes there are scenes that I still do not understand.

1. Mainavati- Jalal: The angle of vision : In 2013, myviewprem had protested strongly against what he saw as Mainavati insulting the Shahenshah by telling Jodha that her father had had to make great sacrifices and endure deep disgrace because of this marriage, that he had been ostracized by the rest of the Rajputs, and that it was becoming almost impossible to find husbands for Sukanya and Shivani because of the Jalal-Jodha marriage. He had pointed out, correctly, that it was not Jalal who had sought the marriage from Bharmal, it was the other way around (he had of course conned Jodha's Bapusa into doing that, but that is siyaasat!)

I beg to differ. This sort of thing is like a kaleidoscope, what you see depends on the angle of vision.

Firstly, even granting all that myviewprem has said, it still makes no difference to Jalal. In fact he would hardly let on that he had noticed these remarks and taken them as jibes directed at himself; it would have been beneath him to retort to any of them. He would have been very ill-advised to have done anything like that.

It would be the same with the rest of the court, whose POV would be exactly like that of Adham Khan when he was jibing at Mansingh and Bhagwan Das. Something like: Beti dekar Amer to bacha liya inhon ne, besharam kahin ke, aur ab dekho kya rona dhona apni baddimaag ladki ki vajah se!

One has to understand the mechanics of the scene and the situation. Jalal silences Mynavati on both the points on which she addresses him, regarding her sons and Jodha's failings, and she has in the end to beg him with folded hands not to send Jodha back to Amer. So, who do you think came out on top?

Lastly, I do not think that Mainavati meant all that she said as jibes at Jalal, for after all she wants to leave her daughter there, and it would hardly be advisable for her to anger the son in law-cum-emperor. I think she just got carried away in her litany of woes to make sure her daughter understood the seriousness of the matter.

I agree with you that this is not a mockery Mayawati. But I was very surprised by this part of the monologue Maynvati to Jodha. I do not understand. She accuses her that because of her marriage, they will have difficulties with the marriage Shivani and Sukanya, and they "that he had been ostracized by the rest of the Rajputs ". But Jodha only one who somehow tried to resist this marriage. Where is the logic?

I think she just got carried away in her litany of woes to make sure her daughter understood the seriousness of the matter?

We have a saying pretty violent expression, "to put pressure on the pity." Maynavati trying to provoke at Jodha had a guilt complex, and cause feeling pity in Jalal?

Point of the day: I distinctly remember Jodha her glaring at her Kanha with unaccustomed hostility, at the end of her behas with the Green Jodha and the Maroon Jodha, and asking him a question that sounded decidedly cutting. That was probably why she did not lug him along to the pool, for otherwise, she is always shown with her Kanha, like Jalal with his shamsheer!Wink

πŸ˜†πŸ˜†πŸ˜†

His blaming her for putting a sword to the throat of the Shahenshah is illogical, for she did not know then that it was he, and he should be grateful for that. If she had known it, he would surely have had no head at all, and thus no way of yelling at her now! WinkWink

I really like your ironic comments! There is a phrase: "About female logic at least talk, about men logic - even no one had heard". Please, men not to be offended! All worthy men I am always respected and been friends. :)

A defence mechanism: Jalal's rage after dragging Jodha out of the pool is directly proportional to, first, the fear he felt, and then the relief he now feels. Both speak to his zehen, and clarify for him what exactly this tiresome, obstreperous, infuriating wife of his means to him.

Attraction Jalal to Jodha so strong that I remembered another: "Mouses were crying, pricked, but continued to guzzle cactus".

But if the Shahenshah harps repeatedly on the Mughal shaan and guroor theme to explain why he had rushed to rescue her, adding a categoric refresher about how much she gets on his nerves and how much he hates her, why, that is the only defence mechanism he has!

He could hardly confess, even to himself, that when Ruqaiya had finished with her dire warning, the breath had caught in his throat as an insensate fear of loss had clamped icy fingers around his innermost being. So the Amer ki Mirchi had to be paid back in her own coin, sood samet.

As for Jodha, if only the Green Jodha could have had a go at her again, she would have realised that there was someone who not only cares whether she lived or died, but was prepared to rescue her from herself. The romantics could then have rejoiced. As could even accredited realists like yours truly!

Your definition - is excellent and romantic, and most importantly, without the creepy pink syrup style ladies' novels.

Remarkable thoughtfulness: It was again thoughtful of Jalal to have thus shielded Jodha from the endless, and often malicious questions and lamentations that would have bombarded her if her suicide attempt had become public knowledge. He does not want it known for his own reasons as well, of course, but he does make sure she is spared a very rough time of it by keeping out everyone, including even his Ammijaan and Motibai, and proclaiming that Jodha was being punished for playing truant from the palace.

I loved the way in which, despite his welling irritation - which, in such cases, is only redoubled by the relief felt after the crisis is past - Jalal took the time to reassure a weeping Moti about the welfare of her Ranisa (a graceful adaab to Rajput mores), and even more so his proud assertion Mughal sultanat ki begum hai, implying that he would not allow anything to happen to the Mughal sultanat ki begum.

Another example of the sensitivity of Jalal and his ability to feel the pain of others. They Jodha same age, but he is older than her mentally and emotionally. This is me with surprise and consciously. Before, I am - subconsciously... 😊





Edited by alffim - 8 years ago
Top