Fall from grace! A new beginning. - Page 6

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beagleboy thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#51
@An - I pondered on 'Intent' as my head hit the pillow last night and I have a question - Agreed that Intent plays an important role in a crime and how that crime is dealt with in the court of law. But an unintentional murder/accident causing death is still a murder under law and is termed manslaughter. And so the perpetrator gets a reduced sentence but he is still punished for the crime.
So, if a person does something without intending to and the outcome of an act, moral or criminal, is bad, does the responsibility, or some of it, not lie with that person? If a child in school is mercilessly ragged and he commits suicide, aren't the students who ragged the child responsible, though it was not their intention to drive this child to suicide? There was a case in the US where an Indian American ragged a homosexual roommate on social media. He, cruelly with malicious intent because he was homophobic, even tried to video tape this boy and revealed his homosexuality on social media, made fun of him etc. Though his intent was to cause the boy emotional hurt, and in his immaturity and narrow-mindedness I don't think he thought beyond his dislike of homosexuals, he did not intend to drive his roommate to take this extreme step. But yet, he is responsible, is he not? Though the intention is not there, his viciousness led to his roommates death. Perhaps I am not comparing apples with apples here, but my question is how important is intent - a crime is a crime anyway you look at it.

Again, just playing devil's advocate and in no way am I endorsing sexual abuse or finding excuses for such preposterous, deplorable and pervasive behaviour. I see these as two independent issues - Aditya committed a crime; Shravan committed a crime. What Aditya did rests on his shoulders. What Shravan did also rests upon his shoulders and is no less. The issue I am debating here is intent - and its role in a crime. Many thanks

THANK YOU to everyone who appreciates my posts:)))))
spshastr thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#52
very well said ..
Agree with everything you say 😊
3serialfan40 thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#53

Originally posted by: beagleboy

@An - I pondered on 'Intent' as my head hit the pillow last night and I have a question - Agreed that Intent plays an important role in a crime and how that crime is dealt with in the court of law. But an unintentional murder/accident causing death is still a murder under law and is termed manslaughter. And so the perpetrator gets a reduced sentence but he is still punished for the crime.

So, if a person does something without intending to and the outcome of an act, moral or criminal, is bad, does the responsibility, or some of it, not lie with that person? If a child in school is mercilessly ragged and he commits suicide, aren't the students who ragged the child responsible, though it was not their intention to drive this child to suicide? There was a case in the US where an Indian American ragged a homosexual roommate on social media. He, cruelly with malicious intent because he was homophobic, even tried to video tape this boy and revealed his homosexuality on social media, made fun of him etc. Though his intent was to cause the boy emotional hurt, and in his immaturity and narrow-mindedness I don't think he thought beyond his dislike of homosexuals, he did not intend to drive his roommate to take this extreme step. But yet, he is responsible, is he not? Though the intention is not there, his viciousness led to his roommates death. Perhaps I am not comparing apples with apples here, but my question is how important is intent - a crime is a crime anyway you look at it.

Again, just playing devil's advocate and in no way am I endorsing sexual abuse or finding excuses for such preposterous, deplorable and pervasive behaviour. I see these as two independent issues - Aditya committed a crime; Shravan committed a crime. What Aditya did rests on his shoulders. What Shravan did also rests upon his shoulders and is no less. The issue I am debating here is intent - and its role in a crime. Many thanks

THANK YOU to everyone who appreciates my posts:)))))


Understand that you are playing devil's advocate - although I am not "an" i will attempt to answer.
what the boy did to his gay roommate can be paralleled to this story, if either of these things happened:
- Aditya has called off the wedding - the blame is all on Shravan! he at first did it to spite Nirmala thorugh Aditya and when he reflected on it, although tortured by it wanted to desperately put it away since he was hurting. Until he admitted that what he did could hurt Sumo there was no premeditation to hurt her, although there was premeditation to hurt Nirmala and Aditya. In fact there still is the premeditation to hurt Nirmala! but in the meantime Adutya acted unwisely, so his sin looks lesser
- If shravan had posted it on social media - like that boy in the US - then yes, he is guilty!

But neither was done. so the intent although there was not truly acted upon or at least the consequences were not felt as yet.

Now the wedding will be cancelled and Yes Shravan will be blamed and rightfully so, but Aditya's had done the worse thing! So Shravan still has an escape route since he saves her :-) But his crime although less is still a crime - really when committed unintentional! - so sort of manslaughter not premeditated!
Gumma Phurake I guess I am saying the same thing time to sleep GN!


Edited by 3serialfan40 - 9 years ago
poppinss thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#54

Originally posted by: spshastr

very well said ..

Agree with everything you say 😊


Big thank you to you 🤗
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Posted: 9 years ago
#55

Originally posted by: poppinss

Todays episode brought out the bad in all 3 leads Shravan, Sumo and Adi.

Sumo for going ahead with a marriage where she could not bear the touch of her fiance. All for family and Nanu. What about the guy, his family, his feelings? Dead wood is not the right way my girl! She may have started the course of the events. But the results are not of her making and she is a victim for one more day... before she turns into Sumo and starts being a little selfish. Hopefully 😃

This is what I've been trying to understand since the beginning of Sumo-Adi marriage talks. Yes, of course, being the docile Suman, she is, in the Tiwari household and given the circumstances of Nanu's health, she agreed to go ahead with the marriage.

But not once did she think from Adi's PoV. I'd have appreciated it, had she sat down and talked to him about her disinterest in all this. Well, if Adi, is not the listening kind, what happened to talking to Nirmala? I agree, she was totally shocked on the proposal and Nirmala directly broaching the subject with Nanu, w/o even consulting Sumo. But she could have talked later.

Anyway..the story has to move on for the drama to be created. Hence, I understand.

And yes, hopefully Sumo gets a bit selfish NOW and I still stand to my opinion that she should NOT even agree to marry Shravan. Not in these circumstances, not becoz of what he talked behind her back (she still doesn't know that, does she?), but what he said to her face at PCT. And then he just made things worse

Aditya, in his defense he does try to talk to Sumo and she does not talk to him. He goes into her room and he tries to tie her dori and she tells him "Yeh kya battameezi" What would she do on Suhag rath? Then comes the crude part. He is more interested in the sex part than the marriage. Crude... but it also conveys the fact that she has no interest in him. Adi knows that. a honorable man would have called off the wedding. But the venom that Shravan filled in him makes him do something that is disgusting and deplorable.

For some sanity, I have been hoping and also believing Aditya to be a good guy and THE ONE to get ShraMan back. But, looks like most of you are all right, in understanding his character. Though it is only a show, and I keep reminding myself of that, it gave me creeps, the way he was handling Sumo.

Shravan, the less said about this Teda Shravan the better. How, he uses Sumo as a tool to get back at Adi and Nirmala. He compromises his friendship, his friend and puts her in a dangerous situation. Why? For daring to reject him? His act is no less disgusting or deplorable than Adi. This is the teda Shravan's naked face.

I'm sorry to say, this is THE actual face of Shravan Malhotra, hidden behind the veneer of Oxford educated lawyer and UK returned gentleman. I'm not talking about the young Shravan, but the grown up Shravan Malhotra. Since his return from the UK, I have seen him to be very 'bitter' most of the time. He's constantly wallowing in his self-pity. Life's not always rosy, and only when U can stand up to the adversaries, that your true nature comes out.

I dont understand when people say, he has been cheated by the 2 most important women in his life. But there are people worse than him. In fact, Sumo is. Both her parents died, she feels and from time to time has been reiterated that she is a burden to her family. Nanu is the only one who truly loves her. But she is not 'bitter' and in fact, has learnt how to make most of it.

Parenting is the most important aspect of most of our lives. But only to an extent, after a certain time, it is how we want to mould ourselves. Shravan is far more exposed than Suman, but still his view of life is so myopic.

The young Shravan in his letter asks Sumo...Is this love?

We come back to the same question with Shravan. What he feels for Sumo after 10 years, is this love? The party where he insults her, Khosla he let her go but saves her in the nth minute, with Nirmala, anger and rage, PCT he blasts her without listening to her, Accident had he warned her she wouldn't have met with the accident. He has not understood Suman at all. He has taken her trust and faith in him for granted. But she has always waited for him all the way through.. for him to come around... till he called her friendship "Kokli Dosti" That day he closed all channels between them... maybe she would have gone back to him then too... waited for him. But fate happened.

Even before watching the episodes, I tend to come over here to know what's happening in the show. I have recently caught up with all the episodes.

And to be honest, the episode on 15th August, where Shravan verbally attacked Suman at PCT, shook me. I found that very agonising. I had tears in my eyes. That was the day, which ruined their beautiful friendship, according to me. The other incidents- of Shravan's opinion about women and the dialogue about keeping a man happy in the 'bedroom', and the now recent 'confession'..are just add-ons to the onslaught. And yes, of course the most recent one has seen him fall down even as a person. The so-called lover and friend have died long before that 'confession'.

Shravan has been behaving like most of the 'typical' men, we see and hear day to day in our lives or on the Telly. It is so sad. His behaviour lately has been so vindictive. He should understand that "LOVE" is not about give and take. If it is unconditional, it can just be about 'giving'. In my opinion, Suman has the unconditional love. Theres a lot of growing up for Shravan and a lot of learning to do as well.

His insecurities are blinding him, the day Lalaji was talking to him about friendship, Shravan could not look at himself in the mirror. He could not bear what he has become, what he has lost, losing. He was ashamed of the teda Shravan.

But, till recently no matter what his fault Sumo always came back to him. Even tomorrow she is going to run to him. Will he realize anything? Or is it too late?

A long time back Sumo said... that she could forget this new Shravan... but could never forget her sweet friend of their school days. Shravan, with what he has done today has crossed that line and indeed is going to make her regret her friendship 😭.

He has truly lost Sumo now... She can be right next to him, but he would be no better than an Adi to her. Because this is not the Shravan that she loved. Indifference is the word that Shravan should really be scared of now.

Exactly what I feel... Not anger, but indifference is what is gonna hurt him the most. And I think, it is high time, Sumo does that. I know, many people over here can argue that, it is because of his love for Sumo, that he takes her for granted. But that doesn't justify his behaviour in any means. Starting from the deliberate public humiliation of Sumo at the party to this recent false "confession" of his. He absolutely has no control of his anger and emotions. He expects Suman to understand his 'love', but what about him? I just can't understand, how he can't see Sumo's pain and hurt, in all that is happening. Maybe others can't read or understand her, but what about him- her so-called best friend and the one who claims to have loved her with all his heart?

Yes..He really should be asking himself, "is this really LOVE"?

Its now time for Shravan to understand what Sumo said after the party insult. "Mein kya hun aur tum kya ho!" Time to understand who Suman / Sumo really is... the part that he never knew even in his school days. The part that he never asked her about.

So true. Does Shravan Malhotra really know who Suman Tiwari is? That is the biggest question he should ask himself.

And for those of you who justify Shravan. An accomplice to murder does not go without punishment. If Adi tried to rape Sumo physically Shravan has purposefully spewed enough venom in Adi. Willfully let Sumo get hurt. I compare Shravans act to Inception, of how a thought is planted in a person's mind, willfully, knowing where that could lead. Shravan deliberately planted that thought in Adithya's mind. He set the dice rolling...

In other words, he deliberately envenomated Aditya. It was not an impulsive act. Those malignant words were properly planned, thought and executed. And sorry to say that, I can't agree with those who say that he has been pushed to the edge. How can that be excusable? He is a man of high intelligence.

And in the same way, it neither justifies Adi's behaviour towards Suman, that Shravan provoked him.

Both these men need to know how to acknowledge and respect a woman, first and foremost.

Imagine if Adi had managed the same feat after marriage in their suhag raath then? Shravan sowed the doubt of infidelity of Sumo in Adi's mind... deliberately and decides to not bother about the consequences. This would not be acceptable to any man in any part of the world. The reactions might differ but Shravan with what he said and implied, did irreparable damage not just to the woman but also put her in danger. This is going to haunt him for a long time.

Shravan Malhotra's fall from grace is infact the beginning of the new chapter.

Understanding that this is not Sumo's Shravan and making an effort to get there... We are going to hopefully see Ramu's Shravan's journey towards Suman and discovering her in the process. Trusting Suman with his life, the same way she used to...

I am looking forward to this journey of him making her his friend again. Can he now?

I am looking forward to the same journey, Poppinss. Of them starting friendship all over again. Friendship between the grown-up Suman Tiwari (and not Shravan's Sumo) and Shravan Malhotra. I know, u would like ShraMan marriage, but am not up for it. I'd like to see their friendship blossoming all over again and they becoming a couple after being friends, rather than the other way round. Because that is what is more difficult.


Poppinss... Beautiful post.
Hope you dont mind me using your post to add on my thoughts. I have added mine to yours in blue and highlighted some of your statements.
Before I end this... I would like to say, this is NOT about Suman Vs Shravan, absolutely not. Because, I dont think they dont exist without each other and come what may, they compliment each other, with all their flaws an imperfections.

(Sorry about typos and grammatical errors)
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Posted: 9 years ago
#56

Originally posted by: nith125

Res
Unres

-------------------------
Beautiful post Poppinns ! Much needed.
I was getting tired of Sumo vs Shravan so now the CVs have helped us move on to Sumo vs Shravan vs Adithya 😉

Suman : Honestly what is she trying to do ? You don't want to talk to the guy. His touch is unbearable and yet she choses to go ahead with the wedding ? There is no one to blame for that. I really felt bad for Sumo when Naanu forced her, but I expected Sumo to be honest with Adithya that she will need time after marriage because she was not ready for this and that she is doing it for Naanu. She doesn't have to tell him anything about Shravan, not that there was something in the first place.
Does Sumo think that if she gets married and her extended family moves to the USA no one is going to know how she is ? I understand she is broken but girl this is so not done. What happens if the very Naanu for whom she is doing this comes to know after the wedding that she agreed because of him, what will happen to him ? Or does she think she can put on a facade for the rest of her life ?
I am a Sumo person through and through but this is her fault, completely.

Shravan : Its high time he stops getting manipulated by every Tom,Dick and Harry. Kabhi Ramnath, Kabhi kamini, Kabhi Nirmala toh kabhi Adithya. At this rate even I can manipulate him. What is the point of ordering Tulips from Europe when you have thrown your relationship under the bus ? I am done talking about him after about 10 pages of ranting yesterday.
Not just you and me, but even Bahadur and Deepak in the Malhotra mansion can manipulate him. So much for an Oxford educated Lawyer!!

Adithya : So this is it. This is the real Adithya, the monster won huh ? He doesn't stop to think at all. I don't think he is even human. Forget the sixth sense, I don't think he even has one sense. The lesser said about him the better. A 2 year old can understand what a "yes" is and what a "no" is . If he can't then he is in need of treatment, be it in jail or in an institution.
I was hoping that he is 'the' good guy, but not after watching the pre-cap. After seeing the OLVs, as we were not aware of the Shravan's "confession", I was under the impression, that is the last resort of Aditya, to get out the truth. But not now.

The point though is the "Sumo ka Shravan & Shravan ki Sumo" , they both aren't there anymore.
What happened to them ? They are lost, they may survive but they will not be complete.
But this is necessary. Shravan will have to learn to trust. And Sumo will have to throw out the feeling that she is an abla nari who will sacrifice her entire life for her family or her feeling of indebtedness.
Absolutely Nith... the first and foremost thing, for Shravan to learn and do is to trust Suman.

They cannot be life partners or even good friends till they learn to communicate.They both have limited listening abilities and excess speaking abilities. Time they changed. Time they started again.
Word to that... Nith. And they dont have 6th sense either.
"Begin and the beginning and go on till you come to the end and then stop."

glassdoor thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#57

Some of the views presented here are stated beautifully. 👏

@beagle, @an_chau - seriously wow!

I agree about it being a new beginning. Fabulous post poppins.

Shravan did a horrible thing. Aditya did even more horrible criminal thing. We have crossed the limits of society and the show is now bordering on legal issues.

What next?
Will Suman come out of the undead zombie state and sue Aditya for attempted rape?
Will Shravan try and defend that case? Is that how he will be 'redeemed'?

Is this how they plan to continue the entire track. I for one am at a loss to understand why they are butchering the ML so much. It has reached a point where I have lost respect for every character in the show(with the exception of sweet Daboo and Vandy).



spshastr thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#58

Originally posted by: poppinss


Big thank you to you 🤗


🤗
poppinss thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#59

Originally posted by: IFollower


Poppinss... Beautiful post.
Hope you dont mind me using your post to add on my thoughts. I have added mine to yours in blue and highlighted some of your statements.
Before I end this... I would like to say, this is NOT about Suman Vs Shravan, absolutely not. Because, I dont think they dont exist without each other and come what may, they compliment each other, with all their flaws an imperfections.

(Sorry about typos and grammatical errors)


Thank you 😃

We are on the same page word for word. But marriage will happen... because it is a show and the story need to move to the next level...
poppinss thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#60

Originally posted by: glassdoor


Some of the views presented here are stated beautifully. 👏

@beagle, @an_chau - seriously wow!

I agree about it being a new beginning. Fabulous post poppins.

Shravan did a horrible thing. Aditya did even more horrible criminal thing. We have crossed the limits of society and the show is now bordering on legal issues.

What next?
Will Suman come out of the undead zombie state and sue Aditya for attempted rape?
Will Shravan try and defend that case? Is that how he will be 'redeemed'?

Is this how they plan to continue the entire track. I for one am at a loss to understand why they are butchering the ML so much. It has reached a point where I have lost respect for every character in the show(with the exception of sweet Daboo and Vandy).

Thank you.


Actually I think they have not butchered any off the characters. I was off the same opinion as you... But if you think deeper... you realize the grey shades of the characters coming out.
They are grey and c we are not allow to accept it. Lets enjoy the romance and let the unhappy bits slide.


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