All discussions about Vrinda, Vishnu here only. - Page 5

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mnx12 thumbnail
Posted: 12 years ago
#41
@skepblun, I blame it absolutely on CVs to twist the known story of V-J.
They wereso impressed by J's characterisation that they changed many facts(read as Purana story). Paravti was not kidnapped, but J went to meet her disguised as Shivji.
Even I don't understand, why Pativrata dharma's standards are so fragile? The story is after seeing J's dead body, Vrinda burnt herself in his pyre. J doesn't see her dead body. Yes a Pativrata Vrinda wouldn't want to live after her husband's death.
Yhe war between J & shivji was a Devasura war, with Shivji fighting mainly because J was his ansh.
Shukracharya didn't train J from his childhood. After J grew uo, he saw his strength, made him Asura king. So blaming Shukracharya for not guiding J & V properly is wrong, he was with J in the war, again I blame it on CV's twisted tales.
After Parvati senses, the one who has come to meet her is not Shivji, J faced her wrath & fainted. It's then Vishnuji tells her he is J. After that Vishnuji goes to Vrinda. The only difference is Parvati could keep him away & Vrinda couldn't recognise he is not real J.
On second though getting excited over a major fiction & part Purana's story is not worth it, according to me.
loveumishal thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#42

Originally posted by: viper833



I agree but they made two mistakes, they didn't show the Shaligram Curse
and also the need to clear the the reason Lord Vishnu had done what he dad done to Lord Shiva.
He did not need to do that.





@Red : I dont think it would be shown as there was not enough build up or connection that's been shown of Vishnu - Vrinda story in DKDM...It was always being potrayed as a Jalandhar - Vrindha track...[Fictional - considering popular known versions...] Probably they cud've mentioned as a modern day festival etc in the end of the episode..

I dont resort to Puranas to get many explanations of the show...because what's depicted is purely based on DKDM Puran...

For me , when Goddess Laxmi mentioned about Narayan's act - it was a re-emphasis of fact to all present there..not a justification of Narayan's act to Lord Shiva...

I am not clear on the Pativrata concept as well as it's guidelines - either in this century or ancient times...Hence opt not to scratch my head abt it...

if there's a Pativrata concept then , there should be a Patnivrata concept too!!!








642126 thumbnail
Posted: 12 years ago
#43
@mnx

Thanks for your reply. I'd made that post without reading previous posts in this thread. Now that I've read the whole discussion I feel a better sense of perspective on this issue.

I was not getting excited over what the serial showed. Just curious.

I kind of disagree with point about Shukracharya in your reply. I did not really blame him. I just questioned why he first got Vrinda in J's life and kept guiding her on what to do but later withdrew from her also! Her husband had kidnapped Parvati and done wrong. She had not done anything to offend him nor instigated her husband to do what he did. So I just felt why Shukracharya did not warn her of consequences she could have to face in her puja for Jalandhar.
mnx12 thumbnail
Posted: 12 years ago
#44
@skepblum,
About Shukracharya, this is again this show's version. When Vrinda started her puja, J was fine. It's only after his act of kidnapping Parvati,he tryed to make him understand but J refused to return her back, Shukrachrya walked out of his life. Shulracharya is not a person but a Guru element. If one's Guru leaves his shishya means the main guiding, saving force has left. That too because of J's deeds. We can't hold Brihaspati responsible for Indra's deeds, so same is with Shukracharya.
If his shishya is on right track then Shukracharya goes to the extent of blocking hole of the kalash, when Bali was about to take water in his hand for sankalpa of daan to Vaman avatar of Vishnuji. Shukracharya recognised him & lost his one eye, when hole of the kalash was pierced by Vaman. So it compeletely depends on the Shishya.
Edited by mnx12 - 12 years ago
Vr15h thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#45
I'll comment on last night's topic here, since it'll probably go on for some days and was not on last night's episode alone.

For starters, I'm pleasantly surprised that they showed this story more or less authentically, given the way they've so gingerly treated Vishnu's past wrongdoings - whether it was at Daksha's yagna, his confrontation w/ Veerbhadra, his role in the Tripura incident or what he really did in the Vrsng avatar. Only thing here - Parvati's role in instigating Vishnu to do this deed has been totally whitewashed, and Lakshmi is shown as being the one who instigated Vishnu. Never thought I'd see that day in this serial.

Now, coming to the scene itself last night, I know that what Vishnu did was controversial, but even assuming his rationale for doing what he did (whether in the original or here), he treated this a lot more gracelessly than he could have. For starters, once he had achieved his purpose in damaging Vrinda's chastity, he should have stayed silent. (It would have been funny had Vrinda told him, saas bahu style, not to mention her name w/ his dirty mouth 😈)

It was fine of him to tell her that he accepted her curse, but ridiculous of him to bless her w/ being eternally associated w/ him, when Vrinda from that moment found that association repugnant. I mean, substitute Vrinda w/ Sita and Vishnu w/ Ravan - what would one think if Ravan said that Sita would be forever associated w/ him? That statement actually struck me as more lusty, even if that wasn't the intent. The last thing Vishnu worshipers should do is have Vrinda in the puja scene as well, and the last thing that Vrinda admirers should do is associate her w/ Vishnu: if she should be associated w/ anyone, that should be Jalandhar.

I also thought that Vrinda's curse was the wrong one, and also, its implementation was misapplied. Vrinda should have cursed Vishnu - just like Shiva cursed Brahma - that he'd never be worshiped. That would have been his proper punishment. Or if he was to be separated from Lakshmi, that separation should have been eternal. After all, Jalandhar did not ever get back Vrinda, and also, Rama was not the cause of her chastity being violated, so roasting him was just a temporary retribution for someone else's permanent damage. Once Rama's avatar was over, Lakshmi was again re-united w/ Vishnu - something that Vrinda didn't get. But IMO, the cleaner way of doing this would have been to end Vishnu's worship just like Brahma's, and that way, Sita or Lakshmi wouldn't have had to bear the brunt of Vrinda's curse - it would have applied only to Vishnu. Sometimes, a hand for an eye or a fist for a tooth is a better idea.

On Vrinda herself - as far as this story goes, if she was indeed a Vishnu devotee and if Jalandhar did object to it, this incident would have taught her what Sukhracharya & Jalandhar already knew - that Vishnu would never be fair to the asuras in any dispute. She was an asura princess & queen - what did she imagine? Neha displayed this realization on the part of Vrinda beautifully last night. I have no idea whether the Shiva Purana version has Vrinda as a Vishnu devotee, but if she was, it would have been a salutary lesson for her and those who thought that Narayan could be just regardless of the group that a person belonged to.
elasingh thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#46

After watching last night episode I feel no sympathy for Vrinda...She got what she deserve...She know Jallu was evil and even his guru had left him because of his evil misdeeds...Still she wanted to make him immortal...Love cannot be an excuse for that...She was using her devotion to Vishnu selfishly...

The best scene for me was the explaination given by Narayan...Though he got very little screen space...
Why is Shukracharya blamed for Jallu 's misdeeds? He did make him a king but Jallu wanted more and more...
Sorry but I feel no sympathy for either Vrinda or Jallu.
.Reshama. thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#47

Originally posted by: Skepblun

I don't mean to hurt anyone's sentiments. I am writing purely on the basis of what I saw in the show. Pardon my lack of knowledge please.
Here goes:

- For everything else in the show till now, Vishnu and Brahma consulted Mahadev. Why didn't they consult Him before taking such a drastic step?

- Does Pativrata dharm get tarnished so easily? Was it thought to be this way? I mean Vrinda did not know who the person was. On her part she was only performing puja with her husband. Also, she only put "tilak" on his forehead. She did not even touch him otherwise or live with him. Then how come her Pativrata dharm broke?
Please enlighten me on beliefs regarding this.

- Why did Vrinda commit suicide? Was this all so serious that she felt so ashamed so to give up her life? (please enlighten me on the beliefs about this in those days)

- Sorry to raise this point, but hasn't Parvati been kidnapped by a paraya purush too? What happens to her pativrata dharm? Is there anything which she will also need to do to restore her chastity? Or is she above all this and her pativrata dharm remains unaffected?

- If Mahadev could restore life of Yamraj, then couldn't Vishnu restore life of his devotee Vrinda? Or was there no need to do this since her existence is not necessary for sansar?

- Tridev are so powerful. Did Vishnu really have no other option except to do this? No other way to tackle Jalandhar? And they could have stopped her puja in any other way. Was it necessary to breach her chastity and betray her like this?
- Does Vrinda's fate have any other backstory to it? Anything related to her previous birth? (Like Draupadi's fate had a backstory to it in Mahabharat)

- Sorry if I sound naive or foolish for asking this BUT when Kartikeya goes overboard in his rage and kills Yamraj, disturbing "srishti ke niyam" he only gets a hug in return from his father and his father immediately makes up for his mistake by restoring Yamraj's life as per this serial. He is not even mildly rebuked for what he did. Is it fair?
(Whatever Kartikeye did with Yamraj and Mrityu devi seems so odd and hard to believe as shown in the serial)

Jalandhar, Indra etc. should pay for what they do. Vrinda should pay for supporting her husband. Kartikeya can kill anyone? For that matter any devta can do anything to anyone? Is it not ego and arbitrary use of powers?

- I have question about Shukracharya also. He had problem with Jalandhar after he kidnapped Parvati. He didn't have any problem with Vrinda! Why was he not there to warn or caution Vrinda of possible fate that awaited her? Or protect/aid her when Vishnu decided to deceive her?
(I think he has been the real "gunhegaar" of poor Vrinda. He first put idea of marrying her in Jalandhar's mind for selfish reason of providing him protection with her pavitrata and pativrata, in this show he almost seemed to have emotionally blackmailed Vrinda into confessing her love for Jalandhar, he kept suggesting her how she had to do everything to protect her husband, but later he cut off from her also after detaching himself from Jalandhar? Not fair!)

*I do not have much knowledge about religion or mythology in detail. I formed opinions and questions based on what was shown in the serial. I apologise in advance if I have hurt anyone's sentiments. And please excuse me if I sound foolish or ignorant in this post*

Well said dear..these quesitons in ma mind...can someone plz enlighten us..???
.Reshama. thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#48

Originally posted by: loveumishal


@Red : I dont think it would be shown as there was not enough build up or connection that's been shown of Vishnu - Vrinda story in DKDM...It was always being potrayed as a Jalandhar - Vrindha track...[Fictional - considering popular known versions...] Probably they cud've mentioned as a modern day festival etc in the end of the episode..

I dont resort to Puranas to get many explanations of the show...because what's depicted is purely based on DKDM Puran...

For me , when Goddess Laxmi mentioned about Narayan's act - it was a re-emphasis of fact to all present there..not a justification of Narayan's act to Lord Shiva...

I am not clear on the Pativrata concept as well as it's guidelines - either in this century or ancient times...Hence opt not to scratch my head abt it...

if there's a Pativrata concept then , there should be a Patnivrata concept too!!!








Well said about patnivrata..where are the rules for married man..
Vr15h thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#49
On the pativrata concept, we had touched upon it once in the Ramayan forum. In Hindu mythology, there were about 7 or so pativrata women - including Savitri, Sita, Srimati (wife of Rishi Kapila), Anusuya (wife of Rishi Atri), Vrinda, Sulochana (wife of Indrajit) and one more that I forget. The thing that was common to all these women, aside from their devotion to their husbands, are
  • All of them worshiped only their husbands and none other - not even the tridevs
  • All their husbands cherished them, were just as devoted to them, and were monogamous - did not take any other wives
Note that this status was a very select one, which many great women did not have. For instance, none of Krishna's wives fell under this category, nor did Rama's mothers, nor did most of the other womenfolk in mythology. Obviously, the tridevis or even the celestial devis - Sachi, Sanjna, Menavati, Rati, et al were out of consideration for such recognition, since it was a feat for humans only, and that such achievements were trivial for goddesses.

The pativrata label is often conflated w/ the panchakanya label, which was very different: it indicated women who were unique in that they could serve >1 man w/o their chastity being totally violated. Ahalya, Tara (wife of Vali), Mandodari, Kunti & Draupadi. The panchakanya doesn't seem to have any scriptural underpinnings and its qualifiers are somewhat questionable - how is Ahalya, who was violated by Indra w/o her knowledge & against her will, be in the same category as Draupadi? The texts differ on whether Tara & Mandodari married Sugreev & Vibhishan. Kunti got her sons by the procedure called Niyoga, which was certainly not the same as her marrying those devas, and somehow, in this analysis, Anjana, who begat Hanuman the same way - her husband was Kesari but she got Hanuman from Vayu - is forgotten. Draupadi alone was one who married and served successfully 5 husbands simultaneously, but such a feat is pretty different from the pativrata women, who served only 1 husband but did that so perfectly that they got special powers as a result.
Edited by .Vrish. - 12 years ago
Joyel thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#50
guys i have a question and doubt to ask about vrindha that when vishnu touches her,how could she lost her padni or padnivratha.Even though vishnu is God,and God can do whatever as he likes as he is the creater of human.Then another point is why she pray to vishnu if jalender is her husband and a God too.😆

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