Have a break, have a Chit Chat - Page 6

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K.Universe. thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#51

Originally posted by: return_to_hades

Also, there is also no conclusive data that these states are more dangerous.



Originally posted by: return_to_hades

There is no data that supports the ban on these seven nations. Besides, more Americans have died in mass shootings in the past decade.




It was Obama's administration that identified these 7 Muslim-majority nations as countries of concern. The previous administration placed limited travel restrictions on certain traveler visiting those countries during a specific time. Trump extended it to a blanket ban (temporary?)


K.Universe. thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#52

Originally posted by: souro



One thing everyone can see, the Liberals are a bunch of disrespectful hooligans, lacks common sense, whiny selfish idiots, who can't tolerate a different opinion, has absolutely zero idea of what common people are having to endure and completely cut off from reality. Not just in US but everywhere it seems.



From what I have seen, and I have seen quite a bit in recent months, they are prone to name calling (intolerant, racist, xenophobic, Islamophobic, Sexist, misogynist, fascist, ...) at the drop of a hat, all in the hopes of bullying a person with opposing viewpoints into silence. The sad part is, they themselves don't know what kind of bigots they are.

Sounds like I am generalizing, and maybe I am, but that's my observation after having watched a lot of media and participated in multiple discussions across various message boards.But I am aware that there are rational people too, like RTH.
souro thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#53

Originally posted by: K.Universe.


From what I have seen, and I have seen quite a bit in recent months, they are prone to name calling (intolerant, racist, xenophobic, Islamophobic, Sexist, misogynist, fascist, ...) at the drop of a hat, all in the hopes of bullying a person with opposing viewpoints into silence. The sad part is, they themselves don't know what kind of bigots they are.

Sounds like I am generalizing, and maybe I am, but that's my observation after having watched a lot of media and participated in multiple discussions across various message boards.But I am aware that there are rational people too, like RTH.

What I found sad is that the Liberals are failing to realise that they are dragging their country's name through the mud and all because they don't like the guy who got democratically elected as their country's president. Isn't that what democracy is all about, sometimes you'll have to accept the choice of others even if you personally don't like it? Isn't it democracy that Liberals advocate always? Then what happened now. If they can't respect the person, at least have respect for the position that the person holds and for their own country which that person represents internationally. Making one's country an international joke should never be the way to protest. China is using US as an example to show its citizens how faulty the concept of democracy is, and the Liberals should realise that China is getting that opportunity not because Trump got elected but because these Liberals started all this hooliganism to oppose his election.
return_to_hades thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#54

Originally posted by: K.Universe.

It was Obama's administration that identified these 7 Muslim-majority nations as countries of concern. The previous administration placed limited travel restrictions on certain traveler visiting those countries during a specific time. Trump extended it to a blanket ban (temporary?)


In 2011 the Obama administration had a six month slowdown to special immigrant visas issued to Iraqi nationals. This was done in response to two Iraqi refugees arrested in Kentucky.

The Trump executive order extends to seven countries and all visa types as well as green cards. There was no threat identified (like Kentucky arrests) to warrant a ban. There was also no need to issue a blanket ban affecting all visa types.

The comparisons are not quite accurate. IMO the wiser thing for Trump would have been to ask for a slowdown on SIVs to add additional security layers. A lot of the moderates/conservatives outraged right now would have backed that kind of approach.
souro thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#55

Originally posted by: xsumi


quite surprising that turkey has had alot of terrorist there but turkey is not mentioned, its because trump has deals there. secondly saudi arabia?? loool saudi arabia a country where i do pilgrimage but its sad behind close doors they support america 🤢 and 9/11 terrorist were saudi arabia so once again shocking saudi arabia is not part of the list

So your problem is not that the citizens of these 7 countries got banned from entering but rather why citizens of Turkey and Saudi Arabia are not banned as well. Well if you pray ardently enough maybe they will be banned as well in the near future, along with Pakistan hopefully.

SYRIA !!!! SOOO MANY INNOCENT CHILDREN THERE WHO GET HAPPY SEEING WATER, INNOCENT CHILDREN WITHOUT NO PARENTS AND THEY ARE BANNED ? 😡😭

How is that the USA's responsibility? Ask the Syrian rebels to stop fighting. Ask the Syrian govt. to treat its citizens fairly. Ask the ISIS to stop killing. Ask the OIC to help these refugees. Why does it suddenly become the responsibility of the evil West?

trump is racist, period !


return_to_hades thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#56

Originally posted by: souro

What I found sad is that the Liberals are failing to realise that they are dragging their country's name through the mud and all because they don't like the guy who got democratically elected as their country's president. Isn't that what democracy is all about, sometimes you'll have to accept the choice of others even if you personally don't like it? Isn't it democracy that Liberals advocate always? Then what happened now. If they can't respect the person, at least have respect for the position that the person holds and for their own country which that person represents internationally. Making one's country an international joke should never be the way to protest. China is using US as an example to show its citizens how faulty the concept of democracy is, and the Liberals should realise that China is getting that opportunity not because Trump got elected but because these Liberals started all this hooliganism to oppose his election.


The electoral college in the United States has always been controversial. Especially since the 2000 elections where Al Gore won the popular vote, but lost the electoral college. Hillary won the popular vote by a historic margin, but lost the electoral college. While there is no doubt that Trump is the legally and democratically elected President, people have the right to be upset at an election system that does not quite reflect the voice of the people.

It is only when people are outraged that things change. Democracy also grants citizens the freedom of speech and the right to assemble and peacefully protest. I think it is not just a right, but the democratic duty of people to express themselves when the administration is failing them. If people genuinely believe that something is not good for the country, they should voice their opinion. The administration may or may not listen. But if no one says anything the administration never knows.

That being said, I disagree with the notion that everything Trump said should be opposed because he said it. I personally have been against the one China policy for a long time. I believe Tibet and Taiwan deserve international recognition and support. I also think that China's artificial devaluation of their currency to monopolize manufacturing is detrimental to free trade globally. I have always wished for an American President to stand up to China's bullying. So I back Trumps intentions in regards to China. I just wish he was more diplomatic about it. The situation is delicate and his act first think later style can be dangerous here. US economy heavily relies on Chinese goods and he needs to do things in a way without the US consumer ending up bearing the heavy burden.

I think liberals also fail to acknowledge that Trump was the only conservative politician who opposed bathroom bills. He also is a conservative who has been against workplace discrimination.

One of my greatest reasons to oppose Trump is because I am highly pro-free trade and anti protectionism. The tariffs he is planning on foreign manufacturing is very detrimental to free trade. Labor in USA is too expensive and US manufacturing will never be cost effective. Instead we need to get the high school drop outs college educated to be competently employed in higher skilled jobs. Manufacturing in USA is actually growing - but it is in automation and innovation. We need systems engineers not day laborers.
K.Universe. thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#57

Originally posted by: souro

What I found sad is that the Liberals are failing to realise that they are dragging their country's name through the mud and all because they don't like the guy who got democratically elected as their country's president. Isn't that what democracy is all about, sometimes you'll have to accept the choice of others even if you personally don't like it? Isn't it democracy that Liberals advocate always? Then what happened now. If they can't respect the person, at least have respect for the position that the person holds and for their own country which that person represents internationally. Making one's country an international joke should never be the way to protest. China is using US as an example to show its citizens how faulty the concept of democracy is, and the Liberals should realise that China is getting that opportunity not because Trump got elected but because these Liberals started all this hooliganism to oppose his election.



IMO, US lost its sheen long time back. It's just a shell of its former self now.

Even though Hillary lost the electoral vote, she won the popular vote. Add to that, the noise about Russian "interference" in elections via Wikileaks, and liberals think they have a legitimate beef with the way the elections went down.

When Trump said during the debates that he may or may not accept the election results, liberals including Hillary raised a big hue and cry. After they lost, they tried every trick in the book to stop Trump from becoming the president (vote recounts, threats to electoral college members etc. ) Now-a-days, it's one rioting after another; one vandalism after another. They call it a "Movement". "Resist" or some crap like that. Thanks to their daily antics, and the influx of illegal aliens and refugees, US is resembling a 3rd world country now.

Who's the Indian equivalent of US liberals? INC?

K.Universe. thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#58

Originally posted by: return_to_hades


In 2011 the Obama administration had a six month slowdown to special immigrant visas issued to Iraqi nationals. This was done in response to two Iraqi refugees arrested in Kentucky.

The Trump executive order extends to seven countries and all visa types as well as green cards.



Not sure if you are saying that the countries on the banned list is not based on a bill that Obama signed into law. If you are saying that, you are incorrect. Please check on the Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act.

But it's not about these 7 countries. Maybe the ban will expand (to Saudi, Pakistan et al), maybe it will relax after a couple of months. To me, it's a move to make Trump look like he is keeping his election promises.
K.Universe. thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#59

Originally posted by: return_to_hades


This one? https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/158/text




That only listed Iraq and Syria even though I didn't traverse all links.

Here's a better one: https://travel.state.gov/content/visas/en/visit/visa-waiver-program.html

Excerpt from the above link:

Under the Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015, travelers in the following categories are no longer eligible to travel or be admitted to the United States under the Visa Waiver Program (VWP):

  • Nationals of VWP countries who have traveled to or been present in Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, or Yemen on or after March 1, 2011 (with limited exceptions for travel for diplomatic or military purposes in the service of a VWP country).
  • Nationals of VWP countries who are also nationals of Iran, Iraq, Sudan, or Syria.
return_to_hades thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#60

Originally posted by: K.Universe.

IMO, US lost its sheen long time back. It's just a shell of its former self now.

Even though Hillary lost the electoral vote, she won the popular vote. Add to that, the noise about Russian "interference" in elections via Wikileaks, and liberals think they have a legitimate beef with the way the elections went down.

When Trump said during the debates that he may or may not accept the election results, liberals including Hillary raised a big hue and cry. After they lost, they tried every trick in the book to stop Trump from becoming the president (vote recounts, threats to electoral college members etc. ) Now-a-days, it's one rioting after another; one vandalism after another. They call it a "Movement". "Resist" or some crap like that. Thanks to their daily antics, and the influx of illegal aliens and refugees, US is resembling a 3rd world country now.

Who's the Indian equivalent of US liberals? INC?


I think you are being a bit too negative about the United States. I think it still is a good country. The country is still privileged with plenty of wealth and resources for infrastructure, we just need the right leadership to utilize it efficiently. We still enjoy a lot of freedoms and privileges not easily afforded to the rest of the world. No we do not have the opulence of the pre-depression twenties or the consumerism of eighties Reganomics - but we still have it good and don't appreciate it as much.

Politics and political opinion is still a clusterf**k. Everyone is nuts - left and right. There are far too few sane voices.

But you know ideological clashing is one of the better problems to have. A nation is most likely in deep shit if everyone buys into one ideology. I do not condone violence or threats, but resistance is vital in a democracy. No matter who is in power - the opposition must have the power and freedom to express themselves. Checks and balances - thats what democracy relies on. Too much ideological alignment eliminates the checks and balances.

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